For this option, you will click on the link below to be directed to a well-known comedian's blog. In this blog, Patton Oswalt reflects on certain aspects of his career as a stand-up comic; he takes on controversial topics like joke stealing, audience hecklers, and whether or not rape jokes are ever funny.
You will need to click the link and read the blog post in its entirety (it's pretty lengthy, but the reading is engaging). As you read, it might not be a bad idea to record his "big ideas" either in your notebook or in a Google Doc. Then, after you have read the blog post, please do the following:
- Create a comment (please create a Google Doc and type the following things into that Google Doc first; you can then copy and paste into the comment form; please also make sure you type your name at the start of the comment if you are not logged into your account) to this post that includes the following:
- A brief summary of each section (i.e. what was the big idea of each section?). You will have three summaries: one for the joke thievery section, one for the hecklers section, and one for the rape jokes section.
- Your reactions to each section of the blog. This means you will have three reactions: one for his section about joke thievery, one for his section about hecklers, and one for his section about rape jokes. Each reaction should include your feelings about what he says: Do you agree or disagree with his ideas? Why? Your reactions should also include your evaluation of his voice/writing style. Do you think his voice and writing style are appropriate for what he's trying to accomplish? Why or why not?
- Finally, I need you to create a discussion question for each section of the blog. Your discussion questions should be critical and they should encourage critical thinking. You will want to create questions that could spark a debate or generate a fruitful discussion. Good discussion questions: "Does the author make a point that has already been made? If so, who else has made a similar point, and why might the author have made this point even though others have made it before him?" or "Is the author's perspective or criticism fair? Why or why not?" Bad discussion questions: "Who does the author mention in this section?" or "Do you like what you just read?"
- After you have accomplished the above, post your comment. You will then craft thoughtful, well-developed responses to discussion questions for at least three other students on this post.
I recommend that you use Thursday's class time to read the blog and write your summaries and reactions (do this in a Google Doc). Then, on Friday, you can generate your discussion questions, copy your work from the Google Doc and paste it into the comment form, and then you can read and respond to at least three other classmates' questions.
Here's the blog link: Patton Oswalt Blog
Danielle Basting
ReplyDeleteJoke Thievery
He talks about how he unconsciously stole a joke from someone while he was doing stand up comedy once. But he wanted to be known for his own jokes and originality. There was another comedian stealing jokes from his friend but they couldn’t do anything about it because his name was bigger and he was actually getting work. But joke stealer’s career eventually died because he didn’t have any of his own new content. He wants to get people to see that all comedians don’t get their jokes out of books and that not just anyone can be funny.
I agree with what he says throughout the entire thing because he made a lot of valid points. I think his voice and writing style are appropriate for what he’s trying to accomplish because they were able to effectively convey his point.
How would it make you feel to create a joke and then have someone steal it and get all of the credit for it? Would it make you feel discouraged or give you the drive to do even more and even better?
Heckling
He talks about how hecklers are not critics and how heckling is misunderstood. People think comedians like hecklers and they make their show better but they don’t.
I understand what he’s saying in this section. But I feel like he kind of contradicted himself because he was saying how terrible heckling is but then he was telling a story about how his and his friends were at a movie screening and they were heckling it the whole time. Although it’s not really the same thing because it wasn’t for a comedian, it’s still the same idea.
Do you think the author’s voice in this section made his point effectively or was his voice a little to harsh for the subject (or not harsh enough)?
Rape Jokes
He talks about how rape culture is a real thing and not just an illusion or something that is made up. He’s saying how he doesn’t necessarily agree with the use of rape jokes but he kind of defends other comedians who do use them.
I’m not sure if I agree or disagree with him because the way he wrote this made it kind of hard to understand his viewpoint. I think rape jokes should not be made no matter the circumstance but I don’t think that was what he was trying to say. But his voice and writing style were appropriate.
Do you think what the author is saying is fair?
Collin Anderson:
Delete1.) If I had to write jokes for a living and someone kept stealing my jokes it would be a little discouraging at first but after a while I would start to write jokes again and be more selective on who I would share them with and make sure that people would know the jokes were my own.
2.) I think the author's voice was appropriate because I'm sure to a performer heckling is seen as more of a disturbance than a humorous experience. If you spent hours creating and rehearsing an act that you were performing and all of a sudden someone who was supposed to be at your show to enjoy it instead starts saying disrespectful things I can see how that could become annoying.
3.) I agree with the author because while the subject matter isn't necessarily the most appropriate, the joke shouldn't define to comedian who uses them and that is one of the main points the author is trying to make.
Molly Devine:
DeletePersonally I would hate someone who took something of mine and then claimed it as their own. I believe that I would be both discouraged as well as have more drive but most of all I would just be frustrated.
Collin Anderson
ReplyDeleteThe section talked about the comedians reaction to joke thieves and how the public reacts to them. This section gave me a sense of how hard it is to become a professional comedian-I know people who think that theyŕe funny and aren't so I totally agree with his statement about how some people are meant to be comedians and some people aren't. I also think he has a right to go off on people who steal his material because that's his right as the creator of the material to protect it. What would a joke thief compare to in other professions?
The section talked about how people think its funny to be involved in their shows and to criticize them but it's actually not funny or entertaining. My reaction to this section was understanding because I can see how having worked so hard on a show and rehearsed numerous times only to have one or two people interrupt it constantly can be annoying and have it be not funny. Why do YOU think people like to heckle?
This section was about how if some material is controversial or rude it does not reflect the personality of the comedian. This section made me think about how the worst crimes that have been carried out by the most kind hearted people. What are some crimes that you can remember that have been committed by people who on the surface seem nice but really aren't that nice in the end.
Michaela Lonski:
DeleteI think that plagiarism is a lot like joke stealing. However, plagiarism seems to be taken much more seriously than joke stealing, and I think that this is very unfair to comedians. Both are stealing a person’s creative ideas and both should have the same importance.
I think that people like to heckle because they have a bitterness or anger towards comedians. I think of it like someone is angry with another person, so they criticize everything they say.
One crime like this could be conning because con artists often try to get to be friends with their victims before stealing from them
Isaac Martin
ReplyDeleteThe whole idea of “stealing” jokes doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The vast majority of the time, people get their jokes from experiences they have had, or by listening to other people's jokes and changing them to make them their own.
I totally agree with the article when it says that hecklers and critics are two completely different things. Hecklers are people who only tear your down and they don't have to put their name on any of their “work” like real critics. Critics put their name on what they say and own up to it. They are not always negative like hecklers are.
Rape in and of itself is awful. However, if you are making jokes about it that are not too in depth and do not tear down the victim then I believe that you should be able to make a rape joke here and there and not be criticized.
Isaac Martin
ReplyDeleteThe whole idea of “stealing” jokes doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The vast majority of the time, people get their jokes from experiences they have had, or by listening to other people's jokes and changing them to make them their own.
I totally agree with the article when it says that hecklers and critics are two completely different things. Hecklers are people who only tear your down and they don't have to put their name on any of their “work” like real critics. Critics put their name on what they say and own up to it. They are not always negative like hecklers are.
Rape in and of itself is awful. However, if you are making jokes about it that are not too in depth and do not tear down the victim then I believe that you should be able to make a rape joke here and there and not be criticized.
Molly Devine
ReplyDeleteThievery Section: This section explained a comedians viewpoint on other people stealing his content. He was over the fact that some people use his creativity and claim it as his own, he was more upset about the fact that people who know better still let him get away with it and credit him for it. However the author of this section knew that in the end the person who steals others jokes and sets will ultimately fail because they are unable to be funny and creative when necessary.
In my opinion, I thought that Oswalt had good points. If I had been in his position, I know that I wouldn’t have the maturity to look past those who take credit for my work.
Question: In your opinion, do you think that you would be as mature with not getting mad about other people using your content as Oswalt?
Heckling Section: This section was about the difference between hecklers and critics. The author of this was saying that as a comedian, hecklers are awful. He compares them to thieves. Oswalt’s opinion on this is that ignoring them is the best way to avoid their annoying presence. Some people think that hecklers are enjoyable to comedians but in reality that is wrong.
In my opinion, I had never thought of hecklers being a real issue for comedians before but now i recognize a bit that heckling makes the comedians job much more difficult. I like how Oswalt compared and contrasted hecklers and critics.
Question: Do you think that this blog entry was realistically the right amount of ‘anger’ over heckling or that Oswalt was overreacting to simple disturbances?
Rape Jokes Section: This section the author was talking about how rape is clearly not okay, however attacking a comedian is not okay either. Oswalt is trying to explain that the person saying the jokes shouldn’t be criticized for rape jokes because saying rape jokes doesn’t make them a rapist.
In my opinion, I don’t think that rape jokes are okay when the victim is target of the joke however the occasional joke that is going at something that goes along with rape is okay when trying to prove some sort of point.
Question: What is your personal reaction and opinion to hearing rape jokes and where is the line drawn?
Celia Ripple
Delete1. Considering Oswalt's specific case, I would probably be more upset since his main goal was to make it to the top on his own with his own material. I would probably call out the people who stole my jokes, and make them cite me as a source or give me recognition. I like that he is trying to change the American public's opinion about joke stealing, I think that would also be a goal of mine.
2. I don't think he was overreacting, but I think he was right to not react to that kid in movie. He handled that in a mature way, and since hecklers are immature, it is good to react to them in a mature way. I think he should be outraged at hecklers because it is very rude to interrupt someone's performance. You wouldn't do that to someone who was singing, so you shouldn't do it to a comedian.
3. I think that a rape joke that has the victim as the punchline is not okay. Rape is an awful that does happen to women today, and they should not have to endure any pain about it from comedians. If you knew someone who had been raped, you wouldn't tell them a rape joke because that would be offensive. However, I think comedians have a voice, and they can instrumental to bringing issues to public attention. Rape jokes that are not offensive to the victim and use satire to point a finger at the American public for not recognizing rape, or at a rapist for committing the crime are a good thing. They are a way to talk about the issue, and make people recognize the problem.
Lilli G
Delete1. I would probably be pissed if someone stole my stuff. Especially because so many people would hear it and stuff.
2. I think that Oswalt was overreacting. The point of his writing was lost in his aggressive language.
3. I think rape jokes are immature and with the world that we live in, not acceptable at all. We need to start having respect and these people making jokes about it, demeans the cause which does not help the situation.
Riley Johnson
ReplyDeleteThieves
In this section, Oswalt writes about his experience with people stealing jokes and how we has been devoted to do just the opposite. He does this by telling stories of people that he as know that steal jokes and where they ended up. He also tells the reader that he isn't working to correct the thieves wrongdoing, but stop it at its source. My reaction to this section was surprise. I have really thought about how hard it must be to “trademark” your jokes, and how easy it would be to steal someone else's material. I agree with his ideas of trying not to steal jokes because I think it gives him more respect as a professional. Do you think it's realistic to never steal a part of someone jokes whether consciously or not? Why or why not
Hecklers
Here Oswalt expresses his dislike for hecklers and people who anonymously criticize comedians. He again uses personal examples to prove his points and makes them stronger. I again, agree with his views on these people. I think that the people that scream out insults at performers are just desperately seeking attention. A question could be, “Does ignoring hecklers shut them down or only encourage them more? Why?
Rape jokes
In this section he is saying that comedians should be able to try out other things and experiment with different types of jokes without being penalized. While he is not condoning rape jokes, he thing that comedians should be able to get to their punch line before people shut the joke down, and after that people have every right to dislike it after they have heard the whole thing. I am unsure how I feel about this section because while I support creative processes, I think that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and while a joke may be funny it still should be said. Is there ever a scenario where rape jokes are appropriate? Why or why not?
Thieves:
DeleteI don't think it is realistic to never steal someone else's joke. Like he says, if you hear it once, it is definitely possible to subconsciously recall it later as your own.
Hecklers:
I honestly don't know. I think it would depend on the person because some people would become embarrassed at the lack of acknowledgement and shut up and others would become angry at the same ignoring and be louder.
Rape:
I do not think that rape jokes would ever be appropriate. There are certain things that cross a line and I think joking about rape is definitely one of those things. Unless they were addressing the bigger problem satirically later on in their line.
The comment above is from Lilli Garza
DeleteLily Brock
ReplyDeleteOswalt believes that joke stealing isn’t ok, but he understands that it is something that most comedians will end up doing on accident. What he really has a problem with are the people who steal jokes intentionally and continue to do it even once they have been caught and called out. In addition, he is thoroughly disgusted with the fans and supporters of the joke stealing comedians and look at their thievery as “okay”. I agree with Oswalt on this topic because I think this topic extends far beyond jokes. I believe that everyone makes mistakes and that is just part of human nature; we are not perfect. I think it is a problem when people encourage behaviors that are wrong or hurtful to others. Those people are setting poor examples for our youth and demonstrating that being disrespectful and dishonest are okay behaviors…when they are not.
Whose actions are worse the one doing the wrong doing or his supporters? Why?
Oswalt believes that hecklers are insecure critics, he views them as distractions and their main goal is to disrupt a show. He also thinks that hecklers are attention seeking individuals who want to thrust themselves into the show. I think the way Oswalt wrote this section does help him achieve his purpose. He is straight forward and to the point. He makes slight jabs at hecklers to lighten the mood for the reader. He is skillful to be sure that he is not too overly aggressive towards hecklers but is instead just stating his perspective as a comedian. I agree with Oswalt on this topic as well. I see hecklers A LOT in high school. Kids intentionally go out of their way to be disrespectful to teachers and disrupt class just to be seen and get attention.
Do you think hecklers appear outside of comedy? If so where and what do they do to try and gain attention?
I’ll be honest I was a bit confused while reading the “Rape Jokes” section. What I gathered from it was that Oswalt believes it is okay and healthy to talk about rape because sadly enough it is a part of society and it is an issue. He seemed to also be saying that if a comedian talks about rape or makes a joke about it that the comedian is not pro rape. The comedian also doesn’t find rape funny or see it as something to take lightly. He believes that through jokes comedians can try and talk about dark subjects and problem areas of our society. I didn’t think Oswalt did a good job in this section defending his point. His thoughts were very scattered and I didn’t see much sound support for what he was trying to say. Personally, I agree and disagree with Oswalt. I agree with him in regards to the fact that rape is a problem in our society and we need to talk about it in order to begin to fix it. I disagree with him in regards that rape jokes are okay because it is comedian’s way of talking about dark subjects. Rape is a heavy topic no matter what and because of that I don’t believe there is really any good reason or time to make a rape joke, especially because you don’t know the story of all your audience members.
How can we talk about rape openly without it being viewed as insensitive? Is there a way?
Lilli G
Delete1. Definitely the one doing the wrong because I doubt that his supporters know he is doing wrong. How would they know? He is the one lying to his supporters.
2. Hecklers definitely appear outside of comedy. They are everywhere. It starts with bullying in elementary school and just moves up from there. They try to be rude or draw surprise to gain attention.
3. Maybe have a disclaimer that says like hey this is going to be controversial or that the comedian is trying to prove a bigger point and to hear him out first.
Michaela:
DeleteI think that the one doing the wrong is worse because they are the ones actually behind an act. They are completely responsible for it, and should take responsibility regardless of who supports them.
I think hecklers can just be criticizers of anything. People who always have a negative attitude tend to bring others down with their comments, and I see this as heckling.
I honestly think that no matter how you approach a dark subject someone will end up getting offended, but I think that these things have to be done anyways in order for change to take place.
Celia Ripple
ReplyDeleteJoke thievery- Oswalt knows he can’t stop the joke thieves. He doesn’t like joke thieves, but they aren’t his target. Joke thieves will get what they deserve. He wants to change the way Americans think about joke thieves. He doesn’t like that Americans think that all comedians steal from each other. He wants people to realize that being a comedian takes talent and not everyone can do it. The current public opinion about joke thieves is what allows them to thrive. He knows he will never win the fight against joke thieves, but he likes having a voice in issues even if people dislike him for it.
Heckling- Hecklers aren’t critics. Oswalt emphasizes that heckling is misunderstood by the public just like joke stealing. He and other comedians hate hecklers. He believes that both joke stealing and heckling derive from creative resentment.
Rape Jokes- Oswalt says in his experience people who make rape jokes are not bad people. However, he concludes that the problem with all the issues he has talked about is that people come to conclusions that they believe to be true only based on their own experiences. he used to commit the same crime concerning rape jokes, but he has recognized that he was wrong. He admits that rape culture exists, and he can’t form opinions about its existence on based on just his experience. He is changing his opinion because he is allowed to grow and change.
Joke Thievery- I didn’t know this was an issue until I read this blog, but I understand what he is talking about. I see how being someone who worked their way to the top on his own, he’d be upset by joke thieves. I agree that Joke stealing probably comes from a lack of appreciation for creativity. I think that giving the anecdotes in the first section helps the reader understand a little about Oswalt’s history, and is a good lead into the topic. The tone is rather informal and proud. it’s a blog so I think the tone fits.
Heckling- I agree that heckling probably comes from an under appreciation of creativity, but I also think it’s just rude. I don’t why anyone would ever commend heckling at a comedian. I think Oswalt went about explaining heckling in a good way. He gave a good explanation that comedians want to do their own creative stuff, and the previous section was a good lead in since he talked about how being a comedian takes talent. I think his tone fit. It was informal and clearly agitated but for good reason.
Rape Jokes- I was confused by this section, and after I read the ending, I had to read the beginning again. However, on a whole I like the message of this section. He tied all three pieces together in this section by talking about how we can’t make decisions about things based solely on our experiences. I like that he admits he was wrong. I agree with his new changed opinion. I think that rape jokes that make the victim the punch line are bad. I believe a rape joke that made the rapist the punch line would be bad because it clearly shows that rape is offensive. I like that Oswalt says he is changing and that he is allowed to change his opinion. Today, too often are people criticized for changing their opinions. I think the tone is apologetic. Throughout the rest of the blog Oswalt’s tone also reveals that he is proud of the career that he has made for himself, but it shifts at the end of this section and you get the sense that he really is apologetic. It fits for the message he is trying to send to the reader.
Joke thieves: What effect does putting the anecdote about Oswalt from the 80s achieve? How does it help us set us up for the rest of the piece?
Heckling: what explanation do you think a heckler would give as to why they think heckling is okay, how would they think it adds to the performance?
Rape Jokes: Oswalt says that in a way rape jokes a coping mechanism for comedians who are upset that rape still happens in America, give an example of a time that you have used humor to cope with a stressful or upsetting situation?
The anecdote that Oswalt uses in this passage shows one honorable path that can be taken after one realizes that they have stolen a joke. After this, he points out how other comedians have not done things like this, and this makes the audience feel that joke stealers aren’t decent.
DeleteI think a heckler would say that their comments are making the show more personal and they were just trying to have fun.
I don’t use humor too much in stressful situations, but one example could be that I try to laugh over things I’ve done that are embarrassing to me to make them seem smaller.
Lilli G
ReplyDeleteSummaries:
-Oswalt was trying to show that everybody steals but that some people actually just have a solid comedic talent. That being said, there is a world full of topics and yes, sometimes two comedians fall upon the same topic to focus on. This does not mean they stole each other’s ideas, but it solely was a coincidence.While some people get famous through using other’s ideas, other’s actually come up with those ideas.
-This section was addressing the “haters” who make it seem like his profession is a joke or more so, a scam. He basically just said that he tunes them out and hates them (but with much more aggressive language).
-Some things just are not funny. However, do not knock it until you have heard the whole sermon. Basically, just that. He is not backing up those jokes but at the same time he is giving them a chance to prove themselves.
Opinions:
-I agree with what he is saying, it makes sense. His arguments are logical and I have seen them in other situations as well. He has a way of making the reading more intriguing, while he is quite breathy. He may be a little too casual for what he is trying to accomplish because it is less formal.
-I have to disagree with him on this one. obviously yes there are people who will be rude and disagree for absolutely no valid reason, but he does not have to be so harsh about it. Which leads me to the next point that, swearing so frequently does not make his point any more clear and rather detracts from his credibility and makes him sound quite childish.
-I slightly agree on this one. I do think that all sides of the argument should be heard out. His voice was brought back to normal again for this piece which made it easier to believe.
Questions:
-Does the author seem aware of the fact that these sorts of things happen in situations other than the comedy world? If not, how does his opinion make the article less effective?
-Does his degrading of the “general public” affect the way you read the article? How so?
-Would you be able to sit and listen and wait to hear out a comedian who made an insulting or risky joke? Why or why not?
Cole Wirth
ReplyDeleteJoke Thievery: The main idea of the joke thievery portion in this blog post was to inform the reader that the work of every comedian is not 100% their material. Sometimes material is subconsciously stolen, as we can see in the ‘bus seat’ example from the original blog poster. Other material is consciously stolen from other comedians in order to better one’s career. Essentially, it is a dog eat dog world out there in the field of comedy, and you should not be mad if one comedian takes material from another. The voice used for this section was entirely appropriate, the author made valid points to get his view across. Everything was very clear and concise in how the author feels about the so called joke thievery involved in comedy.
How would you handle being in a career where it is almost normal for people to steal your work?
Hecklers: The thing with hecklers are that they are very misunderstood. Comedians do not like hecklers, and hecklers believe they are educated enough to critique the given comedy. Hecklers are not critics, and thus should keep their opinions to themselves. I think the author gets very real here, he is trying to show people the respect you need to give to comedians. This is a professional career and it is very rude and distracting to deal with a heckler while you are trying to perform, I feel that the voice used in this section is calm but gets right to the point.
How did reading this section change your attitude towards hecklers and how their comments affect a performer?
Rape Jokes: The author plays it very safe in this section. He acknowledges that the rape culture exists and is very real but the comedians that make jokes about it are not part of that rape culture. Yes it is very offensive and cynical to joke about rape, but it should never be taken too seriously. The voice shows a little bit of indecisiveness on the opinion given, but clearly takes the side of comedians who use rape jokes saying that it is unfair to judge them for that.
Where should one draw the line in comedy subjects? Is there no line to be drawn? Do you expect to feel offended after hearing comedy shows?
Bridget Lee
Delete1) If I was in a career where people stole my work I would not be able to wait and sit it out like Oswalt did. I would want to take action. I would make them give credit where it is due.
2) This section was very impactful. It didn't switch my ideas but made them stronger. I have never appreciated the way that some people will criticize the works of others directly to their face. And on top of that, the comedian is there to perform to you, they are not moving. If you don't wish to see them anymore then you can leave. Not only are hecklers being rude to the comedian but they are rude to the audience members and that is something I find very disrespectful.
3) In any subject adding comedy to it is found as a relief (especially difficult or dry subjects). I do not understand why there are topics that people think comedians have taken it too far. I don't think there is a line to draw on topics. As Oswalt said, comedians use humor to deal with issues. They are able to find light in dark places and I find that admirable. If even the most terrifying and horrible subjects can be poked fun at, them in my opinion, the world isn't so terrible a place. When I go to comedy shows, I expect to come out laughing or even going over some of the jokes in my head. The jokes don't all have to be dying in your chair laughter. Even the ones where you don't think it's appropriate to laugh and you do anyways, those are sometimes the best ones. If that includes rape, racial, and gender jokes then good.
Michael Lockhart:
ReplyDeleteJoke Thievery
In this section Oswalt is reflecting on his experiences with joke thievery and the abundance of it in his profession. Oswalt talks about how even he has stolen jokes haven't noticed he stole a joke at the time. It feels like there is more acceptance of joke stealing if it is considered common thought or accidentally than if it is straight up forgery as seen by his description with the comic stealing jokes from his friend even when confronted about it. I am surprised with the leniency other comics have with stealing jokes I sort of thought it would like plagiarism in school, where their entire work would be discredited. He writes this section almost like he is performing it via stand up which I think helps play into his purpose of non comics understanding the situation. My one question is: If you were a comic and you discovered someone was stealing your material, what would be your reaction? How does that compare to Oswalt’s?
Hecklers
In this section Oswalt is debunking a lot of the myths about hecklers and does so, again, with his own experiences; which helps strengthen his argument. He acknowledges a post that claimed comics enjoy hecklers and that they keep the show entertaining and Oswalt is quick to shoot down this theory before it gains more traction. He talks about how annoying hecklers can be and how they can ruin a show by drawing away from the comic’s true intentions. This section was a lot more obvious for me, as I find it hard to believe that comic’s or any performer would enjoy hecklers when they’re trying to do their job. His voice comes across a little bit more annoyed and serious as he is trying to set the record straight about hecklers so he doesn’t waste any time dancing around his purpose. My question would be: If comics dislike and are annoyed by hecklers like Oswalt claims, why do they respond? Doesn’t that give the heckler more power and motivation?
Rape Jokes.
In this section Oswalt claims that the generally clean comedians are the ones with more violent and mental issues, while the comics with more dark and violent material are the non-violent type. He talks about Daniel Tosh trying a rape joke at an open mic which opens the question in this section about what is too far for a comedian. The idea is that you can downplay serious issues with humor and it is okay. Oswalt claims that comics have the right to test new material without people interrupting or making judgments before they heard the entire joke. Oswalt makes some good points but in the end jokes about such serious offenses like rape will be distasteful more times than not. He approaches the section with caution as Oswalt is readily prepared with counterpoints and acknowledging the other side of the argument in order to come across reasonable. I pose the question: How do comics know where the line is?
Catherine Carter
DeleteIf I was a comedian and someone was knowingly stealing my jokes I would be very upset. I would want to talk to them and try to make them stop taking my jokes because comedians work very hard to come up with unique content. I wouldn't want to sit back until their lack of creativity eventually ends their career like Oswalt describes.
Comedians might respond to hecklers because sometimes they can get hecklers to stop or leave based on their response. If the comedian shuts down a heckler in a way that makes them feel embarrassed and uncomfortable they might stop or they could leave or get thrown out. Also, I think that in general people feel compelled to respond when someone is attacking them. If a person is being rude and offensive to you, it is hard not to defend yourself.
I think that comedians don't know exactly where the line is because people react differently to certain topics. For example, one audience might think that a comedian's rape joke is funny, but another audience might find it highly offensive. This is why comedians are constantly pushing the limits with taboo topics. They want to see what material works and what doesn't.
Catherine Carter
ReplyDeleteJoke Thievery
Oswalt talks about his experiences with joke thievery in this section. He acknowledges that many comedians have subconsciously stolen jokes. However, he denounces people that knowingly steal jokes for personal gain. He also addresses the public’s reaction to joke thievery and wants to change the misconception that all comedians steal each other's work.
I agree that stealing other people’s material is not acceptable and I think it is honorable that he prides himself on creating his own content. On the other hand, I do think that a lot of jokes are in some way similar to other comedian’s jokes because they often stem from the same ideas or opinions.
Question: What do you think is considered stealing when it comes to jokes? Does it have to be copied word for word or could talking about the same topic, like the Hot Pocket joke, be considered stealing?
Heckling
In this section, Oswalt states that comedians do not like hecklers. He uses his personal experience with hecklers to show that they make a comedian’s job harder and are an unwanted annoyance. Additionally, Oswalt suggests that hecklers are motivated by the same thing as people that steal jokes. They both aren’t creative enough to be comedians but they want to get involved and be considered “funny”.
I also agree that hecklers are annoying and rude. It is very inconsiderate to interrupt and criticize someone while they are trying to do their job. I think hecklers just want attention and don’t know how to get it in a positive and more productive way.
Question: What is the best way to deal with hecklers?
Rape Jokes
Oswalt says that comedians often test the limit when it comes to talking about difficult subjects, like rape. However, this does not make them a bad person and they should be allowed to try out new material to see what works and what doesn’t.
I agree somewhat with Oswalt. I think the only time rape jokes are okay is when they are used satirically and bring attention to the issues surrounding rape. Comedians have to be extremely thoughtful and careful when writing rape jokes to ensure that the right person is being laughed at. Unfortunately, many comedians are lazy and inconsiderate when writing rape jokes and ultimately downplay the seriousness of rape.
Question: When is a comedian crossing the line when it comes to difficult topics? Are there any topics that should be completely off-limits?
Olivia Metz
ReplyDeleteThievery- The main idea of this section is how everyone wants to be funny but it cannot happen without thievery. Thievery is over exaggerated in comedy because it is impossible to avoid and everyone has stolen from another comedian before. The joke thieves will get what they deserve but it happens to everyone. Oswalt is admitting to being a real human; that he makes mistakes and is trying to help people understand what goes on. His voice comes off as if he is trying to prove something to the audience. My response is surprise. I have never been aware of this issue, let alone known it was an issue. I agree with Oswalt on the fact that thievery is very hard to avoid because it must be difficult to trademark every single joke and expect no one to use them for themselves. I feel like having comedian as a profession is not looked at with as much respect as other professions so I do understand why it is not taken as seriously. Is it realistic to expect a comedian to never steal a joke from another comedian? Why or why not?
Hecklers- Oswalt is not fond of hecklers, and looks down upon them. He uses his personal examples to explain his dislike. Oswalt’s point is lost within his writing due to the vulgar language and angry tone. This section compares the hecklers to the thieves, claiming they come from a “common ancestor”. I understand Oswalt’s feeling towards hecklers. It is not hard to relate to something like that. Just imagining myself in that position, I feel the annoyance and anger. I do think that there would be a better way for Oswalt to express himself without the language that he used, but it does prove his point. Where is a place that hecklers appear outside of comedy? Why are they there?
Rape Jokes- Oswalt says that comedians that make rape jokes are not bad people. He explains that it is okay to talk about and joke about because it is (sadly) a part of the world. Oswalt explains that it is testing the limits and censorship on comedy. Oswalt’s thoughts were not organized that well in my opinion so his point was not proven as well as it could have been. I agree with Oswalt in the sense that rape is a sensitive topic that needs to be talked about in order to try fixing it. I disagree with his point about rape jokes being okay. Rape is a extremely sensitive and heavy topic and I believe there is no reason to joke about rape and make it into a topic that is deemed as humors. There is nothing funny about rape, especially to a crowd of people whom the comedian does not know personally. Is comedy a way to ease discussion of sensitive and stressful topics like rape? Is it effective?
Lily B:
DeleteNo, I do not think it is realistic to expect comedians to never steal a joke. Similarly to what Oswalt was saying, comedians watch and listen to others just ask athletes watch one another. Mistakes are made and subconscious takes over, many comedians don’t even know they are using someone else's joke. It is realistic to expect that comedians will not use someone else's joke intentionally and then take the credit for its creation.
Hecklers appear everywhere in the world today. You can see hacklers in school, in the media, in politics and so much more! Students are intentionally disrespectful or disruptive in class to get attention. People do outrageous things around people who are famous to gain the attention of the media. Finally, people of political parties may say outrageous things to get the media’s attention on themselves and away from their opponents.
I don’t think comedy is a great way to discuss sensitive topics for two reasons. First of all, rape is not looked at as a laughable or light manner so a comedian has to be extremely careful when crafting what he wants to say, and in my opinion that is not the point of comedy. Secondly, I think it is difficult to to use comedy to address sensitive topics because you don’t know the story of each audience member. That makes it extremely difficult to not hurt someone's feelings in the process of telling your joke.
Sammy Jensen
ReplyDeleteThievery
Oswalt explains his opinion on people stealing jokes from comedians. He shares personal experiences and experiences of his friends with stealers and explains that the people who steal the jokes are not the problem. It is the people who know that others are stealing jokes, but think there is nothing wrong with it. He also explains his frustration with people who think that being a comedian does not take creativity. In the end, Oswalt takes a very mature standpoint because he knows that people who steal jokes will end up failing in the end.
I really enjoyed this section of the blog. I had never thought deeply about the hardships of being a comedian. This excerpt really showed how difficult it can be. I agree with what he is saying and after hearing his personal experiences I can understand why he wants to make a change to how people view comedy. His voice especially comes through in his reactions to joke stealers and I think it helps readers understand his frustrations.
Do you think that Oswalt dealt with joke stealers the right way or do you think he should have been more straight-forward and harsh? Why?
Hecklers
Oswalt explains the difference between hecklers and critics. He shows that hecklers don’t have the knowledge to criticize comedians, so they should keep their opinions to themselves instead of rudely interrupting a performance. He also explains that heckling is similar to joke thievery because both situations are misunderstood by the public.
I agree with Oswalt in the fact that hecklers are very irritating. Oswalt expresses his opinion with his angry tone. The third paragraph is very aggressive and it almost distracts the readers from his point. I agree with Oswalt because I see heckling all the time in my life. Heckling is any situation where someone tries to attract attention by being disruptive. That happens in school alone every day.
When have you experienced heckling in your life? Do you think your situation was worse than Oswalt’s experience? Why or why not?
Rape Jokes
Oswalt explains that comedians should be able to talk about difficult subjects in society without being judged or harassed. He says that rape jokes are okay when the victim is not the target of the joke. He also links all of his sections together by explaining that people don’t understand things because their personal experiences have not allowed them to.
I like how Oswalt linked together all of his sections on the blog by saying that a lot of people can’t understand these situations because they have not experienced them. Besides that one part of it, I was sort of confused. Oswalt was a little spacey with his thoughts and seemed to transition between rape jokes being okay and rape jokes not being okay. I think the reason his point wasn’t very strong was because he tried to be especially sensitive with this section because he knows that rape is a tough topic. To make more of a statement I think he should have leaned more to one side of his opinion. One part I do agree with is where he says that comedians should not make jokes directed at victims. I think that rape jokes are never appropriate, but especially when calling out a victim.
Is there a way to make rape jokes less offensive? If no, why? If yes, who should the jokes be directed at in these cases?
Jacob Collison
ReplyDeleteSection 1. Patton Oswalt explains about how he likes to stay true to his word and how he dislikes when comedians steal each other’s work. He also admits to have unknowingly copied another comedian's work when he just started out. He hasn’t since because of his ego. Patton wants to keep his comedy original and unique.
Section 2. Patton Oswalt explains how comedians feel about hecklers and how hecklers impacted him.
Section 3. Patton Oswalt expresses his dislike of rape, and how he doesn't really approve of rape jokes. He also points out that some comedians careers were ruined by them.
Bridget Lee
ReplyDeleteThievery:
Oswalt introduces the idea of thievery within the comedic industry. He give several examples of his dealings with jokes and ideas being stolen and then to conclude each of those ideas he gives his thoughts on that particular thief. Oswalt shows how he never wants to blame the thieves but instead the ideas that surround comedy. He is showing that not all comedians steal jokes but instead the idea that they do causes some people (the thieves for instance) to say oh that's easy, and steal a couple jokes and make a profit. I agree with his ideas to an extent. The problems usually lay in the ideas that surround them. I do think there are some people that steal even though they know that stealing is wrong and know that comedians made up the ideas themselves. I think his down to earth and very conversational style is appropriate. In my opinion it allowed me to read the piece and relate to his ideas easier. I thought he got the ideas across and just stating some of his own faults makes me able to believe and back him up much easier.
Question- Through examples and thoughts the author provides some very distinct ideas on thievery. Did any of these ideas change the way you thought about this topic? Why or why not?
Heckling:
Oswalt is getting rid of a common misconception that comedians love hecklers. When actually they hate them because they stop a show from being a good show. This idea ties into the thievery mindset. The particular heckler that Patton mentions is the one who says ¨There’s no way they were just making jokes up that fast¨. He is giving the idea that hecklers are ignorant to comedians skills and not something that a comedian wants in the audience. I completely agree with him on this topic. No one should be shouted at because they are voicing their opinions especially if people come to see them. If you are upset with what they are saying just leave. Do not shout and ruin the show for others. His style of writing continued from the first and was again very conversational and we are given a good idea of the viewpoint of a comedian. This once again was very helpful in to understanding his views and getting his message across.
Question- Hecklers are everywhere, both with comedy and not people need to deal with them. Have you ever experienced a heckler? If so how did you react? If not how do you think you might react if you ever have to deal with a heckler?
Rape jokes:
The whole idea of this section is that there are jokes being made about every other situation and terrible crisis but that once rape comes up everything is wrong and the comedian is shunned. In Oswalt's opinion comedians make fun of things to deal with the horrible world we live in. He is saying that comedians should be allowed to find light in terrible situations to learn how to deal with them. I once again think he is completely right. I have never understood why rape jokes are so taboo when racial, gender, and even disease jokes are accepted and even common. I find that using humor can make a situation more relatable and even helps solve issues in certain areas. The style he uses in this area is just as well done as in the past two. I would say it is a bit more informative than the other two. He really inputs a couple of ideas in here that get the idea across even though they don't directly relate to rape jokes.
Question- Comedians often use humor to ease situations and topics. Are there any topics that are too offensive that comedians need to draw the line on? If there are what are they and why are they too offensive? If not why?
Michaela Lonski
ReplyDeleteA brief summary of each section (i.e. what was the big idea of each section?).
Joke Stealing- Sometimes when comedians are starting out, they accidentally use other’s jokes. It’s ok if they realize that they did and did it on accident, but it’s not ok if people use not very well-known comedians’ lines in order to feature or get big jobs. The people they are stealing from can’t stand up for themselves. But in the end, the thieves start stealing from famous comedians, or they just don’t have enough original material to do shows with, so they stop getting hired. Oswalt doesn’t think the problem is the thieves, it’s the people who allow the thieves to steal jokes; the public and journalists who stand up for them are to blame. According to him, some people are jealous of comedians and their creative talent, so they say mean things about comedians.
I agree with Oswalt’s views on this topic. I know I don’t like it when others take credit for things I do. His voice does seem appropriate in this section; it is comedic but it also proves his point.
Question: Do you think blame for joke stealing is the comedian’s responsibility or reporters who support it?
Heckling- Oswalt says that people often think that comedians like hecklers, but says that this is not true at all. He goes on to say that heckling and thievery share a common bond: both are caused by people who are jealous of creative talent. Hecklers are bitter that they aren’t good at telling jokes, so they try to ruin comedian’s’ jokes.
I understand how Oswalt feels about hecklers and why. I thought this section was mostly him getting his anger out on hecklers. I think his tone is appropriate and logical. This helps him to portray his views to his readers
Question: Why do you think journalists and the public believe comedians like hecklers?
Rape Jokes: Oswalt thinks that avoiding a topic because it is taboo isn’t good. He says that rape jokes are ok to tell as long as the joke isn’t about the victim. Telling jokes that are dark subjects makes the subject hold less power over people.
I think that making rape jokes is ok in some situations. If the purpose of the joke is to point out how wrong rape is, the joke is usually fine. However, I agree with Oswalt when he says that the victim should never be made fun of. I think his voice is appropriate because it is conversational, which makes the writing seem very open.
Question: What are some instances that rape jokes should not be made?
Catherine Carter
DeleteI think the blame for joke thievery is the comedian's responsibility. Audiences and reporters shouldn't have to keep track of which joke belongs to which comedian. Comedians need to take responsibility for not stealing jokes because coming up with original content is a part of their job.
The public thinks that comedians like hecklers because they assume that comedians view confrontation with hecklers as an opportunity to prove how funny they truly are. They think that comedians want to show how funny and clever they can be on the spot without using prepared material. In reality, hecklers are annoying disruptions that prevent them from doing their job.
Rape jokes should not be made when they make fun of victims or justify rapists' actions in any way. If the joke isn't used to make an overall claim that rape is a large issue in our society, then the rape joke is not appropriate.
Seble:
ReplyDeleteThe first section that discussed thievery was providing examples of people who had “made it” in the business of comedy yet failed to really make a breakthrough when given the opportunity because their material wasn’t original. The author contradicted himself at some points talking about how he used thievery himself, but when someone used his friend’s material how outraged he was. Overall, the section illustrated the fact that stealing anything, whether jokes or physical objects, was never okay and didn’t really have a good pay off in the end.
I agree with the author’s stance that copying someone’s work and passing it as your own in unacceptable. You will never be able to further yourself and doing so will only make you more self conscious about your own work and you not respected in your field. I think his style of writing is very appropriate because he is a comedian and the way he writes is very funny.
Is thievery still bad when looked at from other angles than ethically/morally?
The second section discussed heckling at comedy shows and the author’s pure disgust of them. Heckling is something that takes away from the beauty of a comedy show and the author was fed up with the fact that some people found it acceptable in some scenarios.
I’m pretty indifferent to the issue of heckling based on this piece just because it wasn’t explained really well and the way the author attempts to write about it didn’t really make a lot of sense to me. I know heckling in general is frowned upon but the evidence and the reasoning that the author gave about it was so weak I found it hard to agree.
Is there any such thing as good vs bad heckling and what are some examples?
The third section discusses rape jokes in a comedic setting. The author points out that the comedians who use risque topics uch a rape and race are only trying to call attention to the issue by joking about it to illicit change. Their use of rape is satire and they want to make their audience feel uncomfortable so they realize how terrible the situation at hand is.
I 100% agree with the author’s interpretation of rape jokes and other risque jokes. They are the jokes that hit home the most with people because they are so true and disturbing and it’s difficult to get people to talk about them in different settings. Uncomfortable topics are the best for comedy because they have the ability to be addressed while at the same time not putting anyone except for the comedian in an awkward position.
How would people who are rape victims or minorities feel when they are the subject of these jokes?
Janet:
ReplyDeleteThievery
Summary: Oswalt discusses the culture surrounding joke thievery. He explains and provides examples of when people have stolen from him and when he has taken from others. Oswalt then goes into the public response to joke thievery and how it is, in his opinion, completely inappropriate. He asks people to consider what they are doing when they ignore the stealing that occurs within comedy.
Reaction: I think it is silly that people don’t hold joke thieves more accountable than what is done now. It is the public’s responsibility to call attention to these issues but we have fallen short as of late.
Question: Was Oswalt too lenient towards the actual joke thieves? Why?
Heckling
Summary: Oswalt complains that those who heckle ruin the atmosphere of a comedy show and make it almost impossible for a comedian to get in a groove while performing. Oswalt once again thinks the culture surrounding heckling is a problem.
Reaction: Anyone who gets up and yells during a live performance is wrong, and I thought that coming into this piece and I still hold that view.
Question: Why is it that heckling is viewed as an acceptable practice while attending a comedy show?
Rape Jokes
Summary: Oswalt voices his support for making more controversial jokes, as he believes that these jokes help to point out the issues surrounding taboo topics. However, he does stipulate that when a comedian chooses to make these jokes, he/she must consider who is the “punch line”, making sure that victims are never attacked through these jokes.
Reaction: It is completely acceptable for a comedian to talk about topics such as rape and race, but they must make sure to think about timing/wording as to not unintentionally misunderstood. Oswalt makes a good point with watching the way your joke is written.
Question: Do these risque jokes illicit enough change to make them worthwhile? Why/Why not?
Tamira Momon
ReplyDeletePatton Oswalt blog
The first section of this blog was thievery. I t really talked about stealing, but not like stealing cars , money, or clothes. It talked about stealing jokes. It was basically the story of an upcoming comedian who started off not purposely stealing jokes, but taking someone else's jokes unconsciously , but once he got out of that he started to get the success he always wanted. Then on the other hand you had other comedians who did the same thing , but did it knowingly and did whatever they had to come up. Those comedians did´t have much success at all because of this. The big idea of this first section to show that thievery can only get you so far and that is the type of world you live in, but eventually you are going to have to do it the right way to get where you want to be in life.
I think that the example that he used was a good example because it shows you how people use like thievery to get where they want to be in life and then the example of using it in context where stand up comedians have this problem was also a great way to help us as the readers understand. I think that his writing and style and tone gave that kind of satiric , but sarcastic type of tone.
The second section of the blog talked about heckling. Which in other terms is a word for joke stealing in the context of the blog. This section talked about how comedians don't like to be involved with hecklers because they ruin the show instead of making the show. comedians love to connect with their entire audience when using their own material. Sometimes comedians have to tune out those hecklers because they only want to ruin and make your show horrible.
This sections I think that this writing style wasn't as clear and understanding as the first section was. I think his example could have been more clear because I kind of feel like he talked more about what heckling was and a person yelling and trying to distract him .It didn't give that same feel or understanding. I'm still a little confused as to what heckling is.
The third and final section is about rape jokes. He talks about how rape jokes not only affect the victims , but it also affects the comedians. He is talking in the aspect of people that have never been raped or comedians that don´t talk about rape as comedy because it's not funny. He thinks that rape is disgusting so he stays away from those types of jokes. He loves what he does and he doesn't want to ruin that by making rape joke.
I think that him being able to tell us stories about comedians who start to talk about rapes and then end up being in a situation where they are accused of rape. Being able to share that and then talk from his point of view of how he stayed away from it and values his talent , it really gives a good feeling and better understanding.